We just noticed the Server software and thought this might suit our needs for a central data collection from a wireless network. Although we are also apprehensive about purchasing something that might be overkill.
We have a couple NL100's connected to our university intranet to the wider wireless logger setup. Currently I have to leave loggernet running on my PC to run the scheduled downloads, which happen hourly for one setup and daily(midnight) for others.
If someone else turns off my PC or I lose power(which happens on a regular basis!), loggernet doesn't reboot with PC boot. We want to get something onto the uni central servers we can administer ourselves.
Q1. Our question is really about the server function, it doesn't look to be a standalone server per say but a loggernet addon, which means a separate licence does it not?
Q2. Could you (CSI) explain more about, installation, use, setup,case study?
We also toying with some sort of web interface or realtime monitoring tied into a server setup, however we aren't overlly fussed on the RTMC system. We typically handle data through excel so we can do reports and such like and the realtime connection windows.
This makes monitoring difficult when trying to look in when away from campus.
My main cause for realtime monitoring is an irrigation and rain simulation system we are running utilising a CR3000 and SDM relay banks.
The system monitors conditions like weather, makes decisions based upon wind and rain and also randomly decides how much.
So we have a situation of Realtime needs to check what is happening now and long term data reporting, ie yearly round up of applications of water upon lysimeters.
I am looking for easier ways to handle the data, currently an excel spread sheet resides at 90mb after sorting only part of one years worth of data. The macros and so forth just seem messy and over complicated to get data from the logger to something reportable.
Q3. Basically, is there an easier way to handle large data sets?
Q4. Is there a way to upload current data when modifing a programme which updates the tables and so forth. I am finding it a real issue with fragmented data sets contained in the logger itself.(we are currently purchasing more memory modules to gain more space). My issue is we do make changes outside varibles sometimes which means lossing the data tables.
I would love to upload, offload data to memory modules, and recall from last record.
Gripe.
Being a new user of CSI dataloggers I have found the handling of data to and from the logger a bit messy.
Damaging previous data sets by manual, custom and auto downloads seems to be common for new users.(what I have seen from others aswell)
Somehow I managed to create non incremental records within a data set, ie repeat data and records which I had to create macros to go through the data files looking at sequence errors. my experienced CSI data logger co worker couldn't work it out how I managed to do this!
Personally I think the handling needs to be centalised, at the moment you can change the why,where and how from several locations. Although I managed to write my first ever CRbasic prg which is 32pgs of code(ugh)the data handling did my head in trying to work out what is going wrong. Still leaves me a little apprehensive about touching anything in the schedule once it is working.
Rigards
Nigel
Hello Nigel,
I will try to address your questions in-line below:
Q1. Our question is really about the server function, it doesn't look to be a standalone server per say but a loggernet addon, which means a separate licence does it not?
LoggerNet comes in two "flavors" -- LoggerNet and LoggerNet Admin. The ability to run LoggerNet as a service is a feature of LoggerNet Admin.
If you currently have LoggerNet, you can order LoggerNet Remote and install it "over" LoggerNet, which will upgrade the software to LNAdmin.
(The main function of LoggerNet Remote is to install it on a different computer so you can connect to the LoggerNet server remotely, over IP, and manage the network. However, it can be installed over a copy of LN to upgrade it to Admin).
Q2. Could you (CSI) explain more about, installation, use, setup,case study?
When LoggerNet is running as a service, if power is lost to a computer, when the computer powers back up again the LoggerNet server will start running. If scheduled collection is enabled, it will resume. All this occurs regardless of whether someone is around to "log in" to the computer.
Installing the service is easy. There is a Service Manager utility that has two buttons. Install (or uninstall) Service and Start (or Stop) Service. So to set up LN running as a service, you press Install. To start it you press Start. It will remain installed and started until you stop it or uninstall it. Thus, any time the computer is powered up, the LoggerNet server will be collecting data on a schedule from the datalogger(s).
Note, that even if an application is running as a service, behavior might be "unpredictable" if power is pulled unexpectedly. If an application is writing to a file, the changes could be lost or the file could be corrupted.
We also toying with some sort of web interface or realtime monitoring tied into a server setup, however we aren't overlly fussed on the RTMC system. We typically handle data through excel so we can do reports and such like and the realtime connection windows.
This makes monitoring difficult when trying to look in when away from campus.
RTMC Run-time will allow you to run a project created for one or more dataloggers in a LoggerNet network. You can connect remotely if you have an IP connection into the server.
The RTMC Web server will display a project so that it can be viewed from any internet connection. The one thing you lose with the web server, however, is control (for security reasons, you cannot toggle ports/flags, change values, etc).
You may also want to look into Vista Data Vision software. This is not developed by CSI, but by one of our reps. It reads *.dat files into a database and allows for the real-time manipulation of the "views" of the data. For instance, with a graph populated with data, you can choose to view one week, one month, or one year's worth of data.
Our Summer 2008 newsletter's headline article was "Five ways to get your data on the internet". You might want to look at that to help determine if one of those "five ways" would work for your application. Right now, our web site developer tells me all but the current newsletter has been removed from our web site because that area is being restructured, but they should be available in two weeks or so. In the meantime you can contact anyone at CSI and ask for a copy to be emailed.
Q3. Basically, is there an easier way to handle large data sets?
There are a couple of options, but I think we'd have to discussed your needs more specifically. You may want to take a look at the "Baler" which is a separately sold LoggerNet client that will "bale" files into discrete chunks. These "chunks" can then be archived. You could also consider using Split (which ships in LoggerNet) to "chunk" the files, and to do further post processing if needed. The CR1000/3000/800 dataloggers also have a TableFile instruction that will store data into "chunks".
Vista Data Vision does store the data into a data base, but you are somewhat limited to the functionality provided by VDV (which may be all that is needed).
CSI has just begun development of a database client for LoggerNet, but development is too early to speculate on a release date :)
Q4. Is there a way to upload current data when modifing a programme which updates the tables and so forth.
Not really. There is a PreserveVariables instruction in the CR1000/3000/800 dataloggers that will store the last known value of a Dimmed or Public variable and restore that value if the datalogger recovers from a power failure or if the program is stopped with the "retain data" option and then resumed.
You *could* use FileRead to read back in a dat file and store that into a table, but that really wouldn't give you what you want (which is putting that data back into the original table).
[i] Gripe.
Being a new user of CSI dataloggers I have found the handling of data to and from the logger a bit messy.
Damaging previous data sets by manual, custom and auto downloads seems to be common for new users.(what I have seen from others aswell)[i]
One thing to consider when collecting data in LoggerNet: There are two separate data storage pointers kept in LN. One is for Scheduled Data Collection and the Collect button on the Connect window. The other is for Custom Data Collection. You should *never* store data from a Custom Data collection to the file name that you specify in the Setup window in LoggerNet.
Other than this, there shouldn't be a way to damage data sets. If you continue to see problems you may want to call into CSI and ask to speak with an AE to see if we can determine what steps in your process are causing data loss or repetition.
I hope this above information helps.
Regards,
Dana